Amy episode final
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[00:00:00] Let's work it.

Katy: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Work It, a UVic career exploration podcast. I'm Katie, and I'm a writer and communications professional who recently earned my MA in English from UVic. I'm here today with my friend and colleague, Emma.

Emma: Hello, everybody.

Welcome back. My name is Emma, and I usually introduce myself as a recent co op graduate, and as that is true, I am also an events professional.

So, that's a little tidbit about me that you didn't [00:01:00] know.

Katy: Emma makes things happen.

Emma: Thanks. I try.

Katy: Before we move into today's episode, I want to take a moment to acknowledge that, as always, we're recording today at the University of Victoria. I'd like to acknowledge with respect the Lekwungen peoples on whose traditional territory the university stands, and the Songhees, Esquimalt, and WSANEC peoples whose historical relationships with the land continue to this day.

Today, we're diving back into our ask an expert feature where we talk about all your biggest career and work related questions, even the ones you might not know how to ask. I'm really excited today to be joined by Amy Chen. Amy is a UVic Applied Linguistics Program alumni currently working at UVic as an equity, diversity and inclusion career advisor.

She developed tremendous passion in supporting equity deserving individuals by working with the newcomers in a local settlement services agency and with international students at UVic in the past 10 years. As a [00:02:00] first generation cisgender woman of color, she aspires to be a change agent for a more equitable and just society.

When she's not at work, she's probably reading, traveling, or playing the piano. Welcome. We're really excited to be chatting with you today. And today, the question we're going to be tackling is how can I approach self advocacy and self identification in the workplace? And I can't think of anybody better to talk about this than Amy.

Emma: Yeah. Welcome, Amy. Thanks so much for being here.

Amy: Thank you, Katy and Emma, for that lovely introduction. I'm so grateful to be here today.

Emma: Well, let's dive right in, shall we? I'd love to start by talking about some definitions. Let's start with what self identification is, and what does that mean when we're talking about our workplaces.

Amy: So in the context of employment, self identification is when an employee or a job seeker voluntarily discloses their diversity identity to their employer. [00:03:00] So this information can include race, ethnicity, gender, gender orientation, indigenous status, veteran status, or any visible or invisible disability status.

While self identification is optional, under the Employment Equity Act, federally regulated employers, such as banks, post office, telecommunication services, et cetera. They are required to make efforts to collect and report race, ethnicity, and gender statistics to federal government for human rights enforcement purposes.

In a case that you choose to self identify, your diversity information will be kept confidential and protected by the Privacy Act. And this information usually cannot be shared unless you give consent. So that's kind of in a nutshell what self identification is about. Now, some employers can also make self identification [00:04:00] surveys mandatory for every employee or job seeker to complete and return the survey. However, they cannot force you to self identify. You can choose not to if that's your case. And the thing is, employers must include an answer such as prefer not to say and clearly indicate that in the survey in itself, um, that self identification is voluntary and also you are allowed to update or change your diversity information as it goes.

So it's not like you complete the survey one time and there's no way that you can change it because we know things may change over time and that's totally okay.

Katy: That's super helpful, Amy. I think that it's great to think about these questions because a lot of us might be familiar with self identifying in settings like our friend groups or even at school, but in the workplace that can sometimes be a bit intimidating.

[00:05:00] So Amy, you're the Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion Career Advisor. Do you mind talking us through what is equity, what is diversity, what is inclusion, what are the differences between those things?

Amy: So when we talk about these three words, in the workplace, we often think that they function separately.

Actually, you need to make three things combined together in order to make it work because the end goal is to have a more just workplace for all. Not for just dominant groups. I come up with my own definitions for equity, diversity, and inclusion. I encourage you to also think about and reflect on your values to develop your own equity, diversity, and inclusion definitions.

Equity in a perfect world means that everybody gets the support they need to achieve [00:06:00] their full potential. Diversity is a place where everybody embraces the differences. So regardless of the status, your race, your ethnicity, your religious status, we just embrace all the differences. And inclusion, it's kind of the end stage that we want everybody to feel we belong.

Everybody belongs to the society. So that's kind of the ultimate goal that we want to approach. And that's why three concepts need to work together in order to achieve the social justice.

Katy: I love your definition. I really connect with what you said that none of these can operate alone. They all have to be working together.

Emma: Yeah, that's beautiful. You've mentioned that it's always optional for us to self identify in the workplace and that we're not mandated to disclose different aspects of our identity. I'm wondering... If you could [00:07:00] talk about why a person with a less visible, diverse identity might choose to self identify.

Are there any advantages to doing it? Could it help in the workplace at all? Why would it be something that we might choose to do?

Amy: So say in the workplace, If you want to make use of the preferential hiring or limited hiring option, that's an equity act that a lot of employers would choose to do these days.

Then in those cases, you probably want to consider self identifying as early as possible so you can benefit from those equity practices in hiring. But then it's also a personal choice. You need to think about whether you feel comfortable to share that information, whether that information will help you to really showcase your strengths, or do you feel by sharing that information, you will feel a little bit vulnerable.

And [00:08:00] then you feel like you may have that imposter syndrome saying that maybe I was chosen because of my special identities, not because of my qualifications for work. So there are so many questions that you need to formulate before you make that final decision on when to disclose and then how to disclose.

Katy: That totally makes sense. And I know in my own experience as a queer job seeker, when I'm looking for work, often if I choose to disclose or how, it really has varied in the past from employer to employer. I will have versions of my cover letter that include my pronouns and versions that don't. So it makes sense that it's so nuanced depending on not just person to person, but job application to job application.

Amy: Exactly. Context is very important.

Emma: When you're applying for a job or when you're looking for a job, how can you go about [00:09:00] researching if that might be a good fit for you and if it might be a good opportunity to disclose? How can you do that in your job search?

Amy: When you look for jobs, first of all, you want to kind of know your strengths and weaknesses. So having self awareness, I would say, is definitely the first step. And then, you know, in the ideal world, you want to find a position where you can totally use your strengths and skills without requesting accommodations or without thinking about, oh, okay, do I feel good? Can I fit into that role or fit into that organization?

So ideally, you want to start with looking for the positions that you can fully explore your full potential. However, we know, in reality, the world doesn't usually function that way. So a couple of tips. Start with your [00:10:00] research, of course. I know there are a couple organizations who will do surveys or they would do some voting to pick the top 100 employers every year.

So, for example, on the annual listing of the Canada's Best Diversity Employers, that's the list that I always, always recommend students to take a peek. So this is done by the government's funds in collaboration with Eluta. By looking through the list, you kind of can have the confidence that the companies on the list are more likely to have inclusive policies and hiring practices that will not only align with the human rights code, but also align with your values and really allow you to show your full potential and your true selves.

However, do not disregard organizations lacking [00:11:00] publicized diversity initiatives. Just because they don't have the information on their website doesn't mean that they're not doing it. Another thing is you can also follow companies' social media accounts. Pay attention to what they're posting. Pay attention to what people are talking about around their programs or their services.

Right customer reviews. That's always my first place to go if I want to learn more about the company. And you can also conduct informational meetings with their current employees or previous employees, just to check out their staff composition and ask questions in the interview to find out their work culture, checking to see if employers have affiliations with certain advocacy groups like Lime Connect or President's Group.

These are kind of the referral agencies that will work with inclusive employers to do inclusive hiring as well. So these are just some tips.

Emma: Thanks, Amy, so much for sharing that resource, and [00:12:00] we're definitely going to link Canada's Best Diversity Employer, that list of 100 employers, in the description of the episode so you can go and access that on your own time.

So Amy, let's say that we found a great workplace, we love our job, and we need an accommodation for the work that we're doing, but we're not sure what exactly to ask for, or what exactly that accommodation is that's going to help, we just know that we need some extra support. What would be a good place to start in figuring out what it is that we need when we're in the workplace?

Amy: So first step, know your legal obligations and rights at work. Second, know your disability or your personal situations and your strengths. and then start by learning to manage a disability or illness. Because, you know, sometimes by managing this, you will develop other skills and [00:13:00] personal strengths. That can be applied to various environments.

By becoming knowledgeable about yourself, your strengths and values and experience, and carefully researching the employers and the job requirements, you can turn challenging life experiences into an advantage in your situation. So, for example, start with your self assessment or self reflection. Create a list to document your strengths and your weaknesses, and see if your weaknesses are linked to a disability or a mental health condition.

Then understand your job duties and reflect on what has worked, what has not worked for you. Ask yourself. What are my challenges at work or school if you haven't got a ton of professional experiences yet? What worked in the past for me, in similar situation? It's always better to figure out some possible accommodations [00:14:00] before you approach your employer for a discussion.

Understanding your accommodation needs, costs. Potential resources will be helpful if you decide to disclose to an employer. So some examples of the range of accommodations in use are flexible work schedules, modified shifts, reduced hours, or like you can get some support in technology. or environment support, personal attendance, a job coach, peer mentoring, such and such.

So again, there are different resources that you can explore. And as long as you know how to bring that up and then what accommodations can make you work better, then you can bring those for a discussion. If you are in an unionized position, then you can approach your union representative. They [00:15:00] may give you some suggestions because some of the supports may also be included in your union agreement, but you just don't know as a new staff member.

But if you're not in an unionized position, you will need to spend some time to do some research.

Katy: That's all super helpful. Thank you so much. So let's say I'm on the job and I'm struggling and I want to receive an accommodation. Do I need to have an official diagnosis? Do I need to have some sort of documentation to receive that support?

Amy: It may depend on who your employers are. Mm hmm. So it's not always a straight answer or an easy answer. I know some companies would require you to provide a medical diagnosis, but then in the medical diagnosis, you don't need to reveal your medical condition or your disability. It could be just a doctor's note to say that [00:16:00] you require additional accommodations at work.

Employers cannot force you to share your medical diagnosis. It's not going to be a full on disclosure, you still have the control of how much information you want to share with your employer, even with the medical diagnosis requirement.

Katy: That's really helpful. Thank you. Yeah, that is really helpful. In a similar vein, I think that even those of us who may not require formal accommodations at work have often encountered a situation where we just need support or help, maybe with a project, a new task.

Asking for help can be really intimidating. I'm wondering if you have any strategies or techniques for overcoming some of that imposter syndrome and how students can get a little bit more comfortable asking for help at work beyond formal accommodations.

Amy: We all need help at work from time to time, but it's not always easy to say so.

No matter how far you have come in your career, you [00:17:00] may worry about seeming incompetent, weak, or simply annoying if you ask for assistance. If you work in a team, you may check in with your other team members. for support first. If you already know the best person to ask for help, then your job is easier, but that's not always the case, right?

We sometimes don't know where to start. We don't know if we are supposed to ask for support. So again, I like to ask myself questions whenever I'm in doubt. So the first question I would ask myself is, is it my responsibility? So first, consider whether the task in question is really your responsibility and whether you have the skills and the knowledge you need to complete it.

It's better to speak up early than to risk doing the job badly or making mistakes that will need more time and resources to fix later. If a task clearly belongs to someone else, then [00:18:00] try to connect with them and then explain your thinking clearly and politely, but if it's your responsibility, then you kind of need to start thinking about, okay, should I approach my supervisor for advice first?

And then the second question I would ask myself is, what's the timeline? If you need to do a job quickly, but you're not sure how to do it, you will likely need to ask for help right away. In fact, it may be reckless not to do so. If you have more time and your other commitments allow it, you may be able to work it out for yourself.

You don't need to ask for help. You can do your research. You can try to use your personal resources. If it's plenty of time available, you can look into other options for training or working alongside another team member so that you can learn on the job. The last question is, what are my options? It's a good idea to pause and consider your available [00:19:00] options before you get other people involved.

Many jobs are easier to accomplish than they first appear. So just a little thought may reveal a way to complete a task or get the information that you need to do it. You may also want to explore more creative solutions such as changing the way you work or automating certain aspects of your job to improve efficiency.

This shows initiative and it may well save time or solve problem in the long run. Choose the right helper. Think strategically. Be kind and humble. Be respectful and show your trust. Be considerate of timing.

Katy: This is all so, so helpful. I appreciated your point about when you do have a timeline that allows for it, taking the opportunity to learn on the job and how that [00:20:00] can really show initiative.

I know for myself, I do a lot of writing in my role and I know how to write. I got an English degree, but often I'm faced with specific types of writing that I've never done before. So instead of asking, how do I do this? I will ask, is there an example of a good version of this that we've used in the past?

Or do you have something I can look at and reference? And then I try to sort of reverse engineer my own product from those examples. Looking into professional development opportunities that you might have at work, especially for tasks that you find are coming up often. If you're needing to do a lot of photography, maybe there's an opportunity for you to take a course in Photoshop.

That really speaks to those like longer timelines and what you said about showing initiative that when it's not urgent and you have a chance to sort of upskill in your existing position, it's great to take advantage of that.

Emma: I couldn't agree more and another point that was really good too was the way that we ask for help and in those situations like you said where time Is [00:21:00] short and we have to ask it could be reckless not to. I love that piece of advice by the way.

It is important how we ask and being humble and taking into account what other people's schedules look like and I wonder if you might be able to give an example of how you would approach a co worker or your supervisor knowing that you need an answer to a question quickly and you know that they've got a lot on their plate.

How might you go about asking?

Katy: That's never happened to us. No, never.

Emma: I don't ask Katy on the daily to do work for me.

Katy: I'm always volunteering. I'm like, Emma, can I do this? Emma, are you okay? Emma, do you have enough

Amy: time? I like how you demonstrate how well you two work together right now because Again, first off, you need to develop that trusting relationship with your team members and [00:22:00] with your supervisor even before you need help.

That's so essential. You need to start banking your trust. In your account, if you have that trusting relationship, then the next step would be easier, right? We know that these days, people are overwhelmed at work. So when you get a project, you need to start by planning out the timeline carefully, and then try to understand whether you would need extra support.

Approach them as early as possible, that's the best. Checking in, I always suggest to maybe schedule regular check ins with your supervisors or with your team members. Those can be just like 20 minutes, 30 minutes per week, but then you can use those pre booked meeting times to also request support if needed.

Katy: That's such great advice. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. When you have those standing meetings, it's built into [00:23:00] your work routine that you're bringing up problems or challenges you might have or tasks you want to receive support with. And it makes it easier because it's already in your schedule that you have this time to connect with your team members.

Amy: Exactly. I think COVID changed a lot of the ways that we work and live. And this is one thing that a lot of people forget after the pandemic. So having those regular check ins are essential to building relationships and also building a stronger team.

Emma: And I think it's a reasonable thing to ask for too if you're at a workplace and maybe those meetings aren't automatically built in with your role I think there's no shame in asking your team or asking your supervisor whoever it is that you're working with. Can we do semi regular meetings whether it's bi weekly or weekly or even monthly just having something there?

I don't think that's an unreasonable ask.

Katy: Absolutely not. I mean, I've been in the position myself [00:24:00] of asking for this. When I first started my current role, we were having weekly meetings with our whole team, but I didn't have anything built into the schedule with me and my supervisor. And... The moment of courage when I was like, Hey, it would really help me if we had a weekly check in completely changed my level of confidence in my role, and it's helped me build a better relationship with my coworkers.

So it's like, I truly cannot recommend it enough. It's okay to ask. So we've talked a lot about getting support in the workplace, and in a perfect world, we all have supportive, values focused workplaces and positive relationships with our co workers, and we can thrive at work. But sometimes, unfortunately, that's not the case.

If I'm in a situation where I'm not receiving the support I need at work, what can I do?

Amy: Depending on the reason that you cannot get support from your employer, you should start by asking whether the employers have exhausted all options to a point of [00:25:00] undue hardship. So, for example, is your condition going to cause a safety concern to yourself or others at work, or the assisted technology just exceeds the cost of the employer's range that they can afford. Also make sure that the reason for refusal is not due to your inflexibility to accept an alternative option or the employers lacking the knowledge of possible accommodations for you. After you check all those, sometimes it may require you to do some research work, to take initiative, to gather more information, and advocate for yourself.

If you are, again, in a unionized position, you can contact your union representative to discuss your options first. But if you're not in a unionized position, you will need to spend time to understand your legal rights, and then the possible [00:26:00] commendations that you can ask. There may be non profit organizations such as UBIC Can Assist and Lime Connect or government agencies like WorkBC that you can reach out to explore any funding options that you can bring back to your employers for a discussion.

If you have considered all options and feel that you may have been discriminated against due to your disability, then you can consider your legal options. Right, you can file a human rights complaint if you want to, um, the BC Human Rights Tribunal lists organizations that can help you if you feel that you have been discriminated against.

BC Human Rights Clinics offers free or low cost legal consultation as well. So, again, try to think about all your options, has the employer exhausted all the options? Have [00:27:00] you tried to be flexible to consider all the alternative options? If none of that works for you and your employers, then you can have another conversations with legal counsels and then see what other steps you may be able to take.

Katy: That's also helpful and all of those resources that Amy mentioned will be linked below if you need to reference them or want to look into them further. Early on in the conversation, Amy, you mentioned that sometimes job seekers or people who are new on the job feel some imposter syndrome, especially if they've disclosed or have a visible marginalized identity.

They might feel that they've been hired because of that identity and not because of their skills, competency, and qualifications. How do you help students tackle this feeling of imposter syndrome or issues of tokenization in the workplace?

Amy: This is such a good question, and I have to say that this is also [00:28:00] a very complicated topic that we can probably spend days or weeks to explore.

But I do talk to a couple of students who experience this tokenism at work. So it's not easy when you feel you are tokenized. So first of all, acknowledge your feeling. It's a valid feeling. If you feel that way, then you probably want to find somebody where you can safely share your feelings. If you have friends, if you have coworkers who work with you closely, then talk to them.

Have some conversations around your performance at work and then see how they feel about your work. If all the feedback that you get is positive, then I would say sometimes it's you overthinking. That could be a possibility. We tend to criticize ourselves more than how we criticize other people's work.

Katy: Especially those of us who are part of [00:29:00] underrepresented groups are just trained into that overthinking, perfectionism and needing to work ten times harder.

Amy: Yeah, exactly and I've talked to so many people who self identify as being neurodivergent and the struggle is this world is created for neurotypical people.

So a lot of the norms are not created considering people's differences. So that's one thing we need to encourage everybody to think about and reflect on. Whose norms am I fitting? If it has nothing to do with it and you still feel that you're tokenized, approach your supervisor. And then try to have a conversation around how you feel like your presence may not be a big contribution and then ask about their opinion on your job performance first.

So you're given a task where you don't think you can [00:30:00] use your identity to perform the task, or you choose not to. Again, it's your opportunity to say no. You don't always need to say yes to prove that you are competent at work. Unless, of course, it's required in that job.

Katy: If students have more questions about this or anything else we talked about today, are there any resources, events, or programs where they can get support with this topic or learn more?

Amy: So a lot of the information I shared today is drawn from the Disability Alliance. BC's Disclosing Your Disability Guide. Another thing I want to let you know is our EDI team will hold dropping hours on every Wednesday from 1 to 4 in the UVic Macpherson Library Room 135G. If you couldn't make it in within those dropping hours, you are welcome to book an appointment.

Via the Learning in [00:31:00] Motion portal under the EDI support calendar, Jenna and I will be happy to support your decision making process on any EDI related topics, or we would love to hear your stories and experiences that can help co op and career improve our services to minority students and alumni.

Katy: All the information about the drop in hours and how you can book an appointment will also be shared.

Emma: Thank you so very much Amy for joining us today and for sharing all of these amazing resources and all of your insight. I think it's going to be really, really useful for everyone listening.

Katy: Yeah, thank you so much for your expertise and your time and your wisdom and we'll make sure that students know how they can connect with you if they need more support or have more questions.

Thanks again. Thank you. Work It is developed and distributed by Co-op and Career Services at the University of Victoria. The podcast is hosted by Katy DeCoste and Emma Ulveland, and produced by Katy, [00:32:00] Emma and Joy Poliquin. Today's guest was Amy Chen. Our theme music and art were created by Emma Ulveland, with audio editing by Emma Ulveland.

If you enjoyed today's episode, subscribe. To learn more about career possibilities and resources from UVic, visit uvic. ca slash career dash services.