S2E7
· 29:15
Hello everyone and welcome back to Work It. This is season 2 of our UVic Career Exploration podcast. This is the show where we answer all your work and career related questions by chatting with some really incredible alumni who are doing some really unique and interesting work after their degrees from UVic, as well as talking with our really knowledgeable career educators who can help you learn to find meaningful work that you can enjoy after you graduate.
Emma Ulveland:I'm your host, Emma. And a little tidbit about me this week is that as a humanities graduate, I love to read. My friends and I have a book club and I'm really excited because our guest today is actually an author, and I can't wait to add some of those books to our book club list. But before I introduce our guest today, I'd love to also introduce my wonderful host, Katy.
Katy DeCoste:Hi, everybody. My name is Katy. I work in communications here at UVic. I moonlight as a poet. And a fun fact about me is the most recent book I finished reading was Martyr by Kaveh Akbar.
Katy DeCoste:It just came out this year. It's really good. I would highly recommend. Before we jump into today's conversation, I want to acknowledge that, as always, we are recording at the University of Victoria, which is located on the traditional territory of the Lekwungen peoples. We want to extend our gratitude for being here as uninvited guests on this land, And we want to acknowledge the Songhees, Esquimalt, and WSANEC peoples whose historical relationships with the land continue to this day.
Katy DeCoste:I'm just coming up on my 4th year of getting to live and work and learn and play here. Every single one of those years has been an honor and a privilege. It's one that I I really don't take lightly.
Emma Ulveland:It's a real privilege and wonder to be here. Today, I'm so excited to welcome to the show Mark Leiren-Young, who is a fine arts graduate and a current UVic professor. He was UVic's 2nd ever double major in theater and creative writing. And since then, he's worked in both fields writing books, plays, and TV shows for all audiences. He wrote, directed, and produced the award winning movie, The Green Chain and the 100 Year Old Whale.
Emma Ulveland:And he hosts the Skaana podcast where he covers ocean related environmental issues. It's so good. If you haven't had a chance to listen, definitely check it out. He toured Canada as half of the comedy duo, Local Anxiety. And he won the Leacock medal for humor for his memoir, Never Shoot A Stampede Queen, a rookie reporter in the caribou.
Emma Ulveland:This is the story of his first year in the real world after graduating from UVic. Welcome to the show, Mark. We're so happy to have you today.
Mark Leiren-Young:Thanks so much for bringing me in.
Emma Ulveland:You've done a lot of incredible things, freelance writing. You are a journalist, an author, comedian, playwright, researcher, podcaster, historian, and so much more. I'm hoping that maybe you can take us back to when you were first graduating from UVic, and what did you imagine your career might be like at that time of your life?
Mark Leiren-Young:Yeah. When I graduated from UVic, I thought I was going to be running a children's theater company. I drove across Canada to run a children's theatre company in Strathroy, Ontario and arrived in Strathroy only to discover that the person in charge of filling out the grant applications had not done that. Yep, you're you're gasping because you must know how Canadian arts work. Yeah.
Mark Leiren-Young:And no theater companies exist without their grant applications. Oh. So they kinda went, oops. So while I was in Strathroy going, now what do I do? Because I had this absolute mix in terms of what I'd studied, what my CV looked like even after graduating.
Mark Leiren-Young:I'd done journalism. I'd done theatre. So I was sending up resumes to various newspapers in Ontario and got this call from the Williams Lake Tribune. And I did not even know where Williams Lake was. And it turned out that a friend of mine had recommended me to the Williams Lake Tribune as, like, this great reporter.
Mark Leiren-Young:He'd also lied and said I was a great photographer. So I did not know how to take photo. Keep in mind, this was in the days of film. And cameras that required you to know what you were doing and only take 12 shots. I arrived in Williams Lake with my dad's camera, which I did not even know how to load.
Mark Leiren-Young:There was no career plan, but I have a vivid memory that was just on the verge of graduating. And across from campus, there was a Mexican restaurant and I remember going there a few days before graduation going, I'm doomed. I got a bachelor of fine arts. I think this is basically what's known as a waiter's degree. The waiter comes up to me and he sees my UVic binder.
Mark Leiren-Young:And what are you studying? And I said, well, theatre and creative writing. And they expect him to laugh and say, of course, that's what my degree's in.
Mark Leiren-Young:And instead he says, oh, yeah. My degree's in microbiology. I graduated in something I really enjoyed. I hope he really enjoyed microbiology. But all I could think of was that felt like one of those things your parents tell you to study.
Mark Leiren-Young:You know what? I did 5 years studying something I love. If I end up a waiter, great, but at least I've done 5 years studying something I love.
Emma Ulveland:Amazing. And I totally get that. I actually came to UVic originally to study science and biology and I learned in my 1st year that that was not what I wanted and I immediately switched to humanities and got my degree in English literature, and I am so glad that I made that choice despite now coming back to UVic for another degree that's now in science. But I do not in any way regret doing that first degree in the humanities. It was so worth it.
Mark Leiren-Young:I love that. Well, especially now when nobody knows how the world's shaking down. Just study something you love. Do stuff you're passionate about, and hopefully, there's a way through at the other end.
Katy DeCoste:That's something that I've thought about so much going from being an English student into having a career is that most jobs are a little bit made up. The things that I'm learning aren't worthless just because I'm getting a job that doesn't feel connected to them. I also really loved how this story you told, it's like the beginning of your career was not just a metaphorical journey. It was a literal journey across the country and back again. I would love to hear about the different creative things that you've pursued.
Katy DeCoste:I know it's a lot, so you don't have to remember everything. You can focus on the stuff that excites you the most, but we'd love to hear more about your journey.
Mark Leiren-Young:So let's see if I can go through all of the different gigs, careers, whatever I've had. I basically started doing journalism and theater. Those were intentional. I was doing those through high school. I was in school plays.
Mark Leiren-Young:I ran and started the school paper at my high school in Vancouver. Those were the most intentional things I've ever done. Journalism and theatre led to writing TV that started with animation, that turned into every kind of TV imaginable. I've done odd translations of anime where I've been given a 100 episodes of a series in Japanese and been told, make sense of this, turn this into stories that we can use. Different animated series I've written for ages from preschool all the way up to, I don't know, whoever still reads.
Mark Leiren-Young:The work that I did in television where I was writing for preschool led to me writing kids books for Orca Book Publishing, which is based in Victoria. Working on my 7th kids' book, This is Octopus. This is out next year. Just got a contract for my 8th kids' book, which is, again, environmental issues. I've written 2 comic memoirs and then non-fiction books.
Mark Leiren-Young:I once wrote a theme park ride for a theme park in Singapore, House of Horrors. Oh, while I was still in high school and while I was at university before I transferred from UBC to UVic, I'd sing telegrams. I have done acting before. Check me out on the 1st season finale of reboot The Guardian Code on Netflix. I am the villain in that.
Mark Leiren-Young:And then I've got the UVic teaching, which has almost all been random, so much of it. And then really the world shut down, and I took over a whole bunch of stuff during the pandemic because before that, I was like, yeah, I'll teach the odd class. And almost all of those were somebody in the department going, wanna do a comedy class? Like, sure, that'd be fun, right? But I was really careful to protect my time for my writing.
Mark Leiren-Young:Then the DC and Marvel classes happened, and those were so much fun. And I am pitching a book based on the stuff that I cover in those classes. And podcasting, I've interviewed some just astonishing people. So, yeah, very little of it was fully intentional.
Katy DeCoste:I think you've touched on something that is so common in careers by creative people is that, like, there's probably not a job that you do for most of your career. And a lot of the stuff you do is probably by accident or good luck or really unexpected. I just think that, like, it can be very intimidating for a student who's graduating to go into a career like that. But it's really important to remember that it's, like, normal and lots of people like yourself have built really successful, fulfilling, creative lives around that.
Mark Leiren-Young:So much of it's being open to things. TV happened because somebody saw me doing a live stage show at the arts club. It was a mix of luck and prep. I had an agent at the time who was determined that I was gonna write TV. And I said, why would I wanna write TV?
Mark Leiren-Young:Because if I wrote a play, I knew that somehow I could make it happen. When I was starting out, if you wrote TV or film, the odds of you being able to make it happen with your own friends and your own gear, which you can now kinda do. And even with TV, you can't do that now on your own. You need somebody to write you a stupidly big check. Yeah.
Mark Leiren-Young:So I thought, I don't wanna write things that never get done. But I got into TV. I was coming from journalism. I was comparing to journalism. Like, there was one gig that I had where I was writing what were called interstitials for CBC.
Mark Leiren-Young:And interstitials were when the host comes on and says, coming up after hockey net in Canada, we've got this show. And then there's like 30 seconds of blah blah. And I actually wrote those during intermission during connect games going, I'm getting paid like several $100 a shot for writing something during intermission. And they think I'm really good because I'm actually doing research and they've never had anybody research them. But I had written what's known as a spec script, a fake script of a real episode of TV for X Files.
Mark Leiren-Young:And I'd only done X Files because I had friends who worked on the X Files. They could smuggle scripts out to me. I wrote my own version of an X Files script. And the person who saw me on stage at the arts club doing a comedy show was there with a friend of mine and said, it's too bad he doesn't write for kids because we could use somebody really funny. We're doing this new show called Reboot.
Mark Leiren-Young:And my friend said, oh, he writes for kids because I was writing I wrote kids' plays. She went, wow, I wonder if he's got a TV sample. I have this X Files thing. What I did not know was that Gillian Anderson was married to one of their animators. Oh my god.
Mark Leiren-Young:Next thing I knew I'm sitting in the room going, so you're the X Files writer, Yeah. You're gonna be writing an episode of X Files with parodies of Fox Mulder and and Dana Scully, and I'm suddenly reading an X Files episode for fax modems and Dana Nelly with Gillian Anderson playing Dana Nelly and Duchovny is like I'm not doing this stupid cartoon. Fortunately I had a friend I went to high school with so I said yeah My friend Scott can probably thank DeConvy. Yeah. So he was, and Scott has had a tremendous animation career.
Mark Leiren-Young:So it was a mix of accident and having the material there. Yeah. Right? Really the most amazing gig I think I've ever done was I got to write the orca exhibit for the Royal BC Museum.
Emma Ulveland:Are you serious?
Katy DeCoste:Well, that exhibit was awesome.
Emma Ulveland:Yeah. It was.
Mark Leiren-Young:That is the coolest thing I've ever done in my life as a gig. And I wrote this book, The 100 Year Old Whale, and got to know some people at the museum. And so I was invited to the original brainstorming session for putting together an art exhibit where they invited the whole community to sort of weigh in because it was the most expensive exhibit they've ever done at the Royal BC Museum. And I turned to the guy who invited me and said, who writes the panels? Is that you?
Mark Leiren-Young:And he said, no. No. We hire a writer to write the panels. We need somebody who knows how to write for kids. Well, of course, I've been writing kids TV.
Mark Leiren-Young:So I went, I can write for kids. Can I write your panels? How do I get to write your panels? I was brought in and invited to write the panels and basically write the exhibit. And they very quickly realized that because I'd done all this research both for the book and for the podcast, that I was connected to most of the people they were interviewing for research.
Mark Leiren-Young:I knew a lot of the stories. I knew a whole bunch of things about whales that the curators didn't. I mean, they knew epic amounts of science that I did not understand. But in terms of the pop culture of it all, I had done all this research in terms of the history of captivity, who all the various whales were. My proudest contribution was that we should not be using the numbers to refer to these orcas.
Mark Leiren-Young:We should not be referring to them as j 35, but as Tahlequah. If you look at the exhibit, you'll notice that every orca was referred to by the name they'd been given to the point where they used the names and then the numbers in parentheses where traditionally it will be the other way around. Mhmm. Everything about the museum thing was so amazingly cool and telling the story of the southern residents. But again, speaking of career twists, if somebody told me when I started going, oh, yeah, one day you're gonna be the whale guy.
Mark Leiren-Young:Like there are people that just call me like the whale guy now. And I'm like, that was because I found one story, and to my mind that one story was science fiction. And it was the story of Moby Doll, the first ever orc in captivity. And I wrote this book, The 100 Year Old Whale. I've told that story in so many different forms.
Mark Leiren-Young:I'm still finishing a documentary on that story. But what obsessed me about it, at the point I was doing this, I had no idea that Moby was a southern resident dorka, that the family was endangered. But also when I took on the Mobi story, it was an incredibly inspiring story about how we'd done all these horrible things to southern resident orcas and the population was recovering. And everybody I was interviewing was talking about the recovery of these orcas. So I went, I will make a movie about Granny, the 100 year old whale, and I will talk about this incredible story about recovery.
Mark Leiren-Young:And as we're making the movie, the orcas just start to drop. And this goes from this incredible, inspiring, wow, is it nature resilient story to, wow, aren't humans horrible and isn't this sad? And it was just shell shocked. I, like, I seriously don't think I would have ended up doing any of the work that I did if I hadn't jumped on to the story when it was happy. To me, Moby Doll was a science fiction story.
Mark Leiren-Young:It was first contact with alien species. I was trying to write about the transformation in cultural attitudes towards orcas that took place over an incredible short period of time.
Emma Ulveland:It's amazing, and I love how it was almost a happy accident that you became the whale guy. It was an
Mark Leiren-Young:absolute accident.
Emma Ulveland:I think that's wonderful. And what motivates you and inspires you to continue sharing about whales and about the environment at large?
Mark Leiren-Young:Environmental issues have always been part of what I've done. Like, my comedy, dual local anxiety. Our main stuff was political and eco. And we actually did a comedy special in the 19 nineties that we build as Greenpeace, the world's first eco comedy. Decades later, we are still the world's only eco comedy.
Mark Leiren-Young:It's a little tragic. But with The Whales, that was absolutely an accident. Then the accident compounded because The Killer Whale Who Changed the World was was wrapped in the first draft. And I was getting phone calls, emails from the people I'd interviewed saying, oh, do you know this whale story? Do you know this?
Mark Leiren-Young:Do you know this is happening? This is happening? And I'm trying to explain. Look. I'm I'm a freelance journalist.
Mark Leiren-Young:At that time, I was writing for a lot of different places, but it's like the walrus will take 1 orca story from me every year. And then they feel
Katy DeCoste:just be pitching them orcas every week.
Mark Leiren-Young:Yeah. And then they feel that they've done orcas. Right? Narwhal will take like 1 or 2 from me. Like, yes, I'm working for a lot of publications.
Mark Leiren-Young:None of them want a lot of these stories my wife said well why don't you do a podcast where you just interview these people and I said no I've done a podcast before there's technical stuff involved I do not like doing technical stuff But she actually said, what if I produce? If I produce, will you interview all these people? This really did come from somebody saying, have you heard this amazing orchestra? And then Wales really took over because Transbadm Mountain Pipeline was happening, and I reached out to a friend who was covering and watching all the hearings for Dogwood. I said, look, I'm not seeing anything about the whales.
Mark Leiren-Young:I said, I haven't seen a single mention of the orcas. And he went, one person's mentioned them in passing. I'm like, seriously, no one's mentioned them at the hearings at all? He went, no. I wrote a story for the National Observer where I'd interviewed all of these different people.
Mark Leiren-Young:I said, what does the Trans Mountain pipeline mean for the southern residents? And all of them answered with the word extinction. I was getting this answer over and over again and either being told, can't quote me on that, or I'd say, so you're gonna talk to the commission and go to the hearings. Right? I said, oh, I can't.
Mark Leiren-Young:I said, why can't you? I said, well, I was one of the consultants on the report. I don't have standing. I can't because I work for the Department of Fisheries Notions. Therefore, I don't have standing.
Mark Leiren-Young:And then they'd all go, but you are. Right? And I went, No. I'm I'm a journalist. We don't do that.
Mark Leiren-Young:Every single person who I consider the person to speak to this is saying I'm not allowed to speak to this. I remember calling the guy from Dogwood the night before the Victoria hearing. Please tell me somebody's mentioned the orcas. And he went, no. I'm like, I don't wanna do this.
Mark Leiren-Young:I don't wanna do this. I sort of knew the fallout if I did it. And I wrote a speech, delivered the speech. The response was epic. And immediately after that, I was told I was no longer a journalist.
Mark Leiren-Young:Yeah. Places that would hire me to write articles now were very clear I could only write op eds because I'd taken a public political stand. That was the orcas taking over my life entirely. Yeah. And since then, there are things that I can say that a scientist is not allowed to.
Mark Leiren-Young:If David Suzuki says this, you go, of course, he's saying this. He's David Suzuki's gut, the organization.
Emma Ulveland:Exactly.
Mark Leiren-Young:If George Strait Alliance, who are wonderful, say this, well, that's their gig. I'm weirdly disconnected from all of these things. So weirdly, every time I've tried to walk away from this, it's just not optional. And then Orca Book Publishing went, hey, wanna do kids books about all of this? So I've now done 3 kids' books about whales and 2 kids' books about sharks and kids' book about octopus.
Katy DeCoste:All of this, like, speaks so powerfully to the impact and power that not just finding a good story, but also telling a good story, like, really well can have, and also, like, recognizing when something needs to be told. And I'm just, like, hearing that in how you find things, people asking you, oh, have you heard this story? It's incredible. And then how you know what you have to share, what you have to amplify, what you have to speak about. Along that lines, like, you teach here at UVic, and some of the courses that you teach aren't necessarily for students who are looking to become artists.
Katy DeCoste:Like, they're not studying theater. They're not studying creative writing. You work on this course called creative being, and I would love for you to speak on how you, like, tap into that creative capacity that's in all of your students and in people who aren't necessarily making a career out of this in the way that you have.
Mark Leiren-Young:Oh, creative being is such a fun course to teach. It's such a gift that I get to teach this one. I took over the class when the world was shut down. I'd never taught a 1st year course. I'd never taught a course that size.
Mark Leiren-Young:So I reached out not just to everybody I could find who'd ever taught the course, and said, what was the most successful thing you ever did? What do students like? What did they not like? But I reached out to people who created the course. Mhmm.
Mark Leiren-Young:And I said, what was your original vision for it? And I said, the original vision for this class was basically introduce everybody in fine arts to the aspects of fine arts they don't know. So I went, okay. That seems like my happy place. So when I pitched to do the course, I said, I would like bring in people who cross boundaries and genres.
Mark Leiren-Young:I want to bring in guests who cross worlds. One of my favorite guests for this is Carey Newman, who's an artist, who's also been an opera singer, who's also a writer, who's also made films. And I'm like, I wanna talk about how all of these come together. And the gift for me of doing this on Zoom during the pandemic was I was able to bring in the best people in the world were doing nothing.
Katy DeCoste:Yeah. And they were at home.
Emma Ulveland:At home
Mark Leiren-Young:and poured to tears. I mean, I beamed in Denise Clark, who's one of Canada's best, most famous, revered choreographer dancers from Alberta, and she did an hour and a half of q and a for the creative being class. I beamed in Ronnie Burkett, who's national treasure as a puppeteer. I beamed him into one of my classes. I've tried to bring in all of these people who do multiple things.
Mark Leiren-Young:My dream class was one of the classes that started off this term. My students have to move at some point. Because I thought, if you're a theater student, you know, getting up and doing a theater exercise, that's just Tuesday. Yeah. But if you're a business major and you're taking this class, that's a scary thing to do.
Mark Leiren-Young:I brought in a choreographer. I brought in Trina Stubble who got the entire class moving. I'm like, yes. That's what I wanna see in this class. I've booked in clowns before.
Mark Leiren-Young:I brought in the Wonderheads last term. They went, could we bring in our whole show and sort of preview? Yes. Side 4 Wonderheads with full mask in that classroom, letting the students try the masks on to get a sense of what it was like to walk around a mask. The Phoenix season this term was starting off with a 100 years of Broadway.
Mark Leiren-Young:I reached out to the choreographer and director of that, Pia Wyatt, and she brought in the entire cast. And I started off FA 101 with 10 people singing and dancing and doing an entire 10 minute excerpt from, 100 Broadway. For a theater student, that's Tuesday. For a business student, maybe that actually gets them in to see a show. But that's my goal for that class.
Mark Leiren-Young:It's just like how many different things can I possibly expose you to in, like, 9 guest lectures? How many different art forms? Can I bring in a stand up comic? Can I bring in a dancer? Can I bring in a clown?
Mark Leiren-Young:I said I want them to get that all of these areas of creativity overlap.
Katy DeCoste:Your excitement talking about this and then also hearing about how these courses are structured, it is just, like, reminding me, I think, as a creative person that so much of creativity is, like, play and experimentation. And it's, like, that's what you're reminding these students of in these courses, which I think is really cool.
Emma Ulveland:That brings me to another question that I think a lot of students especially can benefit from. When you're really passionate about a certain skill or the creative process or whatever it is that brings you to the fine arts. Sometimes then translating that into a successful career can seem either impossible or scary. And I wonder if you have any advice for students about how they can approach turning those passions, turning those skill sets into a career as you've so clearly done a great job of?
Mark Leiren-Young:My big thing is don't wait. You wanna write? Great. Walk over to the Martlet. Write something for the Martlet.
Mark Leiren-Young:I kinda launched my comedy career on CFUV. My partnership with the guy I toured Canada with for 10 years from local anxiety, he was hosting a show at CFUV. I was doing an improv soap opera. And he's like, I like your sense of humor. Do you wanna do these comedy newscasts you're doing for the soap opera on CFUV?
Mark Leiren-Young:Don't ask for permission. Don't worry what your grades are. Don't wait for your professor to approve the piece. Put your stuff out there. Take chances.
Mark Leiren-Young:The degree is not going to magically confer gigs to you. I did a business writing class once, and, you know, my big thing was look around the room. Somewhere in this room, somebody's gonna give you your first gig or say no to you when you apply for your first gig. Yeah. Just to remember you were mean.
Katy DeCoste:Gonna be a grant referee someday.
Mark Leiren-Young:Oh, absolutely. But it's like it blows my mind how many people I'm working with who I met at UVic a 100 years ago. That's a huge part of the value in it. If you're in the theater department, walk across, notice what's happening in the art building. There's so many cool things going on on this campus.
Mark Leiren-Young:Take advantage of them.
Emma Ulveland:Yes. I love that. I mean, it is really fabulous advice, and it is a skill that's really important to build and to take throughout the rest of your life.
Mark Leiren-Young:It's inevitable. Right? Like, if you're working in TV, you're working with so many people.
Katy DeCoste:Terrible. If you're working jobs are just group projects forever.
Mark Leiren-Young:They really are.
Emma Ulveland:Okay. Now it's time for our segment called the rapid fire questions. So, Mark, this is a segment where we ask you some questions about your time at UVic, and you need to tell us the first answer that comes to your mind. Are you ready? Thinking back to when you were a student, the campus probably looked a bit different.
Emma Ulveland:What's one thing that has stayed the same?
Mark Leiren-Young:The Phoenix Theater had opened not long before I got here, and it still looks very much the same. I suspect there will be some grand plan to renovate at some point, and it really is an incredible theater facility. It was designed to replicate the Barbican Center in England, which was the most state of the art facility at the time it was built. I'm sure there are a million things that need updating now since it was built in the eighties, but the Phoenix, pretty much the same.
Emma Ulveland:It's a relic, folks. Get in while you can. Okay. I love that. Where is your favorite place to grab food on campus?
Mark Leiren-Young:Felicitas.
Emma Ulveland:Good choice. I've heard that from another guest this season. I love it.
Mark Leiren-Young:Veggie chili.
Emma Ulveland:Delicious. If you had to write a memoir about your time at UVic, what would you name it?
Mark Leiren-Young:Where are the bunnies?
Katy DeCoste:I haven't
Mark Leiren-Young:picked that up yet.
Emma Ulveland:That's so beautiful and I love it. I hope that has some ecological elements in it.
Mark Leiren-Young:I was just thinking, the the bunnies hadn't taken over the campus when I was here, but they appeared not long afterwards, and I miss them. I understand all the reasons. They're terrible for the grass and the athletes and all that, but I thought it was so cool when the campus was overrun by bunnies, so that was hilarious.
Emma Ulveland:Everyone asks me about that. People who aren't from UVic but have visited, they always ask me, are there still bunnies?
Mark Leiren-Young:I definitely still see them around the Phoenix in the Fine Arts Building.
Emma Ulveland:They're making a comeback. Okay. If you could do your life, everything that you've been doing for your career, if you could do it all again, would you do anything different?
Mark Leiren-Young:Yeah. I would've learned guitar or ukulele because I've done so many comedy songs over the years and I've never been able to perform any of them without help. I actually was thinking about this and that, okay. There's no excuse. I gotta go back and figure this out.
Emma Ulveland:You can still do it. That's the best part. There's so many tutorials too out there. Yep. I believe in you, and I wanna hear on your next podcast or in your next creative endeavor, I wanna hear the guitar or ukulele.
Mark Leiren-Young:I'm I gave you that answer specifically to force myself to do this.
Emma Ulveland:Good for you. Well done. Well, Mark, it's been an absolute joy to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for coming and sharing your wisdom with us. And we really wish you all the best with everything that is to come for you.
Emma Ulveland:So thank you.
Mark Leiren-Young:Thank you so much for doing this. This was big fun.
Katy DeCoste:Work It is developed and distributed by Coop and Career Services at the University of Victoria, and hosted by Emma Oboland and Katie DeCoste. Today's guest was writer, comedian, orca researcher, and now UVic instructor, Mark Laren Young. Our theme music and art were created by Emma Oboland with audio editing by Emma Oboland. If you enjoyed listening to today's episode, you can subscribe to Work It anywhere you get your podcasts and you'll never miss an update. To learn more about career possibilities and resources from UVic, visituvic.cadashcareerdashservices.
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